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PostPosted: December 17th, 2007, 9:36 am 
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Ghostbusters: For The Best
December 1980.
It's been ten years since the tragic death of David and Carolyn Stantz. The intervening ten years have seen their three children--Carl, Ray, and Jean--grow very far apart. Can they bridge the gap, or is it for the best if they continue to lead seperate lives?

Thanks to CJ for letting me use some excerpts from his story "A Boy Named Ray" in the prolog. His story is available at Fanfiction.net

Pictures of my concepts for Carl and Jean as they appeared in 1980 are now available on the Spoilers page.

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PostPosted: December 17th, 2007, 1:25 pm 
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This story has a two-Ghostbuster focus and, as I said to Fritz in e-mail, it works really well. This is an interesting character piece for Peter a bit and Ray a lot - not a combination we see overly often, as I recall.

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PostPosted: December 17th, 2007, 2:12 pm 
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That was beautiful. I enjoyed this story very much considering I'm a big Ray fan. Great work, Fritz. I am very happy. :D

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2007, 12:12 am 
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As I said to fritz before, I really had a low opinion of Venkman after reading this.

He didn't seem to learn anything from the experience (like getting the Last name of your Booty Call before trying to score), and didn't seem too sorry about nailing one of his best friends' sister.

Ray is possibly the most forgiving man in the world, and one of the most cheerful men coming from a broken home. It really does say alot about him, though.


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PostPosted: December 28th, 2007, 9:47 am 
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And as I told Vincent in reply, remember that this is 1980. Three years before Dana Barrett; years before the AIDS crisis. This was an era when cheap, anonymous sex was common and relatively accepted. Venkman is sort of a lizard right now--to both fit with the era, and his "later" characterization as a man not above hitting on the students at Columbia University (as seen in the opening scenes of GB1).

He does feel bad about Ray being upset, and for contributing to making him that way. That may not be very clear, granted, but that's how I see it. But at this point in time, if you want him to feel sorry for picking up a hot chick in a bar and banging her without even knowing her name, no. He's not going to feel too bad about that, unfortunately. :|

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PostPosted: December 29th, 2007, 6:59 am 
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I'm glad Jean's voice came through in the story. She says, quite rightly, "I wasn't resisting." This is supposedly after the sexual revolution, but even if it happened now the man would be seen to be in the dominant position.

Ok, so he didn't find out her name, but she's not a doll that only responds to certain stimuli. If she wanted him to know her name before he had sex with her, she would have given it. And did she know his name when it happened, I wonder?

I wouldn't want Peter apologising for sleeping with his friend's sister either. Being Ray's sister doesn't make her any less her own person, and she made a choice. The whole "my sister" thing doesn't seem to be uncommon, but I'm a younger sister myself and I don't like it.

Of course, maybe I'd feel differently about some of this if I lived in a state or country where seventeen was too young.

(And I was trying so hard not to get bogged down into talking about the sex!)

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2007, 1:39 pm 
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EGBFan wrote:
Ok, so he didn't find out her name, but she's not a doll that only responds to certain stimuli. If she wanted him to know her name before he had sex with her, she would have given it. And did she know his name when it happened, I wonder?


She probably didn't. Even after the "sexual revolution," it purely comes down to personal views about sex. Sure, lots of people treat it like a handshake, or a "test run."

I guess I'm a little old-fashioned. Sex is sacred in my book, I only share that with the one woman I intend to spend the rest of my life with.

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I wouldn't want Peter apologising for sleeping with his friend's sister either. Being Ray's sister doesn't make her any less her own person, and she made a choice. The whole "my sister" thing doesn't seem to be uncommon, but I'm a younger sister myself and I don't like it.


I'm not sure if it goes beyond the American borders or not, but sleeping with your best friend's (or any friend's) sister is something you just don't do.

It's much in the way related to the whole concept of the doting father, and big brothers often adopt the mindset of "No man is good enough for my little girl (or sister)."

...and I think daddys doting on their daughters is a universal concept. :lol: I know for a fact that I'm going to be one.

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Of course, maybe I'd feel differently about some of this if I lived in a state or country where seventeen was too young.

(And I was trying so hard not to get bogged down into talking about the sex!)


...and that age varies from state to state. There are some states where the "legal consenting age" is 16.

The age thing was never an issue with me. Hell, a couple centuries ago, most girls were married at 12-14. 16 was considered to be close to getting too old. Then again, I guess you kinda get that when 20 is considered "middle-aged."

I would have done worse than Ray if I were in his shoes. The whole "sleeping with your friend's sister" is akin to "dating your friend's ex-girlfriend;" it's something that's just considered bad form.

Perhaps it's a cultural thing.


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PostPosted: December 30th, 2007, 2:51 pm 
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DrVincentBelmont wrote:
I'm not sure if it goes beyond the American borders or not, but sleeping with your best friend's (or any friend's) sister is something you just don't do.

It's much in the way related to the whole concept of the doting father, and big brothers often adopt the mindset of "No man is good enough for my little girl (or sister)."


It at least stretches to the UK, but I'm looking at it from the point of view of the little sister. She is a person, after all. I'm not saying I'd sleep with my older brother's best friend (in fact I'd rather not), but if I wanted to, I'd get pretty POed if my brother started getting possessive (but of course, we can't forget that in this case, Peter didn't know who she was).


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...and that age varies from state to state. There are some states where the "legal consenting age" is 16.


Yeah, I know - and sixteen is the age of consent over here in the UK as well (trivia: statutory rape can only be committed on people of twelve or under; someone of thirteen, fourteen or fifteen and it's just having intercourse with a minor), which is why I think seventeen is perfectly old enough. But it's a personal thing anyway - some people feel ready before they're sixteen, and some maybe not until they're in their thirties. Or ever, come to that.

I'm not going to talk about my attitude towards sex here, but Jean's; she's a girl who wants to have sex, as some do, which is why I sometimes wonder why pretty much all the blame (if that's the right word) is apportioned to the male (but maybe I wouldn't have picked up on it so much if I wasn't currently writing an essay about how this kind of thing is treated in literature - coincidences! :roll:).

Edit: Hello. :P

I should clarify that my reference to the sexual revolution was all to do with what it did for the feminist movement. Women don't need to be promiscuous in order to be equal to men - of course not - but up until sometime before the 1970s sex was seen as something that men did to women, and as the duty of a wife and all that terrible, terrible stuff. By the time this story is set, we should all realise that women feel desire just like men do, and if they consent to sex it's by choice. The point I want to make - and I think I've done it now - is that it's as little as half down to the man. Why not yell at Jean just as much?

Fritz mentioned the HIV scare, that hasn't quite happened yet in this story, so at this stage the risk of sex for women is greater than it is for men (obviously because of pregnancy - that's almost certainly why the double standard started, according to an historian I read a few years back). I've just written a paragraph about how there still seemed to be more concern for girls' sexual behaviour even once the danger was as great for men; but I guess that's not relevant to a story set in 1980, so I won't get into it (aaaand everyone breathes a sigh of relief).

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2007, 5:19 pm 
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By the codes, it's true, isn't it? I need to write more stories with sex in them. It starts discussions in ways vampire kidnappings and evil wizard conspiracies don't. :lol:

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2007, 8:40 pm 
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How bout stories combining vampire kidnappings and evil wizard conspiracies with sexual undertones? ;)

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PostPosted: December 31st, 2007, 7:19 am 
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Fritz wrote:
By the codes, it's true, isn't it? I need to write more stories with sex in them. It starts discussions in ways vampire kidnappings and evil wizard conspiracies don't. :lol:


I'm always encouraging you to write more sex into your stories. Maybe now you'll listen to me at last. :P

I don't know if you remember, but I did start quite a little discussion about religion with ghostdiva when it came up in one of your stories. Real life issues interest me more than vampires and wizards, I'm afraid.

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PostPosted: December 31st, 2007, 1:36 pm 
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so just sex and religion . ok there you go Fritz that's all you need to right from now on

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PostPosted: December 31st, 2007, 2:29 pm 
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Fritz wrote:
By the codes, it's true, isn't it? I need to write more stories with sex in them. It starts discussions in ways vampire kidnappings and evil wizard conspiracies don't. :lol:


Gosh, when I cryptically tell all the new employees "This is the stuff of wizards, so delve not into it unless you are prepared to deal in such things...", I don't REALLY mean it so literally. :lol:

Don't mind me, EGBFan, I'm just a REALLY old-fashioned guy. In fact, some have said that I was born in the wrong decade, and that I belong in the 1920's. I mean, for crying out loud, I wear a cardigan and house slippers, and smoke a pipe! How many younger men do you know who do that?


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PostPosted: December 31st, 2007, 3:39 pm 
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BlackMaria wrote:
How bout stories combining vampire kidnappings and evil wizard conspiracies with sexual undertones? ;)


I realize I have already done one...sorta... :lol:

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PostPosted: January 1st, 2008, 2:22 pm 
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Great story Fritz! We don't hear a lot about Ray's family so that was an automatic point for me.

Ray's sister joined a commune eh? I thought she owned a ranch that we saw in one of the RGB episodes? Or was that a cousin? I can't remember. Gotta dig out the VHS now! :D

Interesting side note: The Space Shuttle was supposed to fly as early as 1975 but budget curtailing, the Vietnam War, and general disinterest in the space program kept it from progressing. Columbia still holds the record for longest amount of time spent on the launch pad. It was rolled out of the VAB in December 1980 but didn't launch until April 12, 1981

Other questions:

1. Where did you get the name for Carl's kids?

2. Do Carl and Jean even know what Ray does for a living? I'm sure they probably didn't miss the Ghostbusters "movie." Do they care at all?

3. For that matter, do they even know he's married now and has a kid?


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