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PostPosted: October 25th, 2021, 1:08 pm 
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Now they're teasing/ torturing us with a new E/J picture from GB 1. On a new clip. I feel like I'm being made fun of at this point.

I know how that woman felt in "Misery" now. :x

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PostPosted: October 25th, 2021, 7:42 pm 
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ghostdiva wrote:
Now they're teasing/ torturing us with a new E/J picture from GB 1. On a new clip. I feel like I'm being made fun of at this point.

I know how that woman felt in "Misery" now. :x


I think we all do. Oh how simple it would've been to have Egon and Janine married at this point.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2021, 12:44 am 
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nikki wrote:
More than one of the film's reviews mentioned

In my experience, film reviewers are almost always self-important amateurs, there's no college degree in reviewing movies, no credentials needed beyond "I interviewed and the editor gave me the job", especially on the internet where the top criteria they're looking for is "how clickbait-y can you make your headlines sound" and "how fast are you?" They aren't exactly precise in their word choices and are prone to jumping to conclusions or only half-remembering what they've watched, only marginally surpassed in untrustworthiness by video game journalists. And then there's the ones that feel the need to make everything about social or political "issues" on top of that...

If I were to put money down on it, I'd bet the movie never exposits in detail on why Egon wasn't a part of Callie's life and these reviewers are making an assumption just like we are.

But human relationships are a lot more complicated than anyone here seems willing to admit, and I think it's hyperbolic to assume Egon keeping his distance from the mother of his children was a choice made out of malice or neglect on his part. Sometimes when relationships break down, the mother doesn't WANT the father around. Sometimes the father has what he believes are good reasons for staying away. Maybe Egon didn't even know he HAD a child until late in his life because the mother left without telling him.

These things happen. They don't just happen, they're common. Sometimes moreso these days than parents who get married and stay together or who are able to share custody peacefully after a breakup.

I'm concerned that people in this thread might be taking an automatically-against-it stance towards anything in the movie solely because the Egon/Janine ship was shot down. I can understand being disappointed by that particular choice, but it's not fair to assume things we don't know out of bitterness.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2021, 1:08 am 
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I personally dont care about reviewer opinions. I've gotten details on about 90% of this movie, I've made my own opinions, and I'm not satisfied. I get disheartened by people saying this is what fans wanted ect. I didn't want it to play out like that and I'm not thrilled about things.

I really dont appreciate when people make me feel like I'm not entitled to my feelings or that my feelings are wrong just because they go against the general consensus. I'm not gonna kiss Hollywood's butt just because they made a movie. Everyone on other boards wants no negative feedback, makes you feel bad for questioning any of the plot. I'm not a sheep. I can voice my own opinions.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2021, 3:55 am 
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ghostdiva wrote:
I really dont appreciate when people make me feel like I'm not entitled to my feelings or that my feelings are wrong just because they go against the general consensus.


If I've made you feel that way at any point in this thread, I'm sorry. I honestly haven't been to any other boards during this period of me actually coming back to the GB fandom, it's been literal years since the last time I've posted here. I don't like drama and want to just post my thoughts on what I want from this new movie, (that should've been released last year, but that's life.)

We all probably want something different from this outing, and this is where we go to share what our expectations are. I don't wanna attack anyone for what they want, and I don't want to be attacked for what I want. (I'm not saying I feel like I've been attacked by anybody, I just don't want to be attacked for what I think will happen.)

Your opinion is just as valid as anyone who visits this site and I'm glad to know there are other people here that think the same way. We can argue about what we want, but at the end of the day, we at least (hopefully) respect each other.

I'm sorry about the paragraphs of an apology, I sorta get my Capt. Picard on when I think I"m in the wrong.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2021, 6:45 am 
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TheRazorsEdge wrote:
nikki wrote:
More than one of the film's reviews mentioned

In my experience, film reviewers are almost always self-important amateurs, there's no college degree in reviewing movies, no credentials needed beyond "I interviewed and the editor gave me the job", especially on the internet where the top criteria they're looking for is "how clickbait-y can you make your headlines sound" and "how fast are you?" They aren't exactly precise in their word choices and are prone to jumping to conclusions or only half-remembering what they've watched, only marginally surpassed in untrustworthiness by video game journalists. And then there's the ones that feel the need to make everything about social or political "issues" on top of that...


Reviews are all we've got right now, man. I haven't had the pleasure of watching the movie yet, and until then I can't really go on much except what the people who have seen the movie and are paid to put something down on paper know about it. Are they biased? maybe. But the abandoned child theme is mentioned with more than one review, and not only in the negative ones.

TheRazorsEdge wrote:
These things happen. They don't just happen, they're common. Sometimes moreso these days than parents who get married and stay together or who are able to share custody peacefully after a breakup.


Yeah, and I've seen it happen in real life, with a woman who left her two sons to be with a man they didn't like. No-one came out of that situation looking great and yeah, it caused some emotional damage that we're probably likely to see in Callie. Like I said before - not a great look for old Spengs there...

TheRazorsEdge wrote:
I'm concerned that people in this thread might be taking an automatically-against-it stance towards anything in the movie solely because the Egon/Janine ship was shot down. I can understand being disappointed by that particular choice, but it's not fair to assume things we don't know out of bitterness.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You've got to be kidding me.

I'm not against the movie. I'm going to see it. Probably not on opening night, but as soon as I can afterwards. And I'm not assuming things I don't know out of bitterness. I'm going on what the movie is marketing - the trailers, the commentary, the reviews, the ads, the posters, the cereals and the fancy popcorn buckets.

As for the Egon and Janine stuff - I'm just confused more than anything. The second trailer made it seem like she was more involved with Egon, then Jason's Director's Commentary suggested that she looked after him in his old age and that there was a connection between them, and now there's a little glimpse of it in the most recent ad, which makes me think there might be some closure at least for those two, so I don't know. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I'm not gonna pitch a fit if they don't get together. Frankly, I'm so used to building my hopes up on that front and then it not happening that it's almost become routine.

ghostdiva wrote:
Everyone on other boards wants no negative feedback, makes you feel bad for questioning any of the plot. I'm not a sheep. I can voice my own opinions.


Quoted for truth.

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2021, 6:00 pm 
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TheRazorsEdge wrote:
I'm concerned that people in this thread might be taking an automatically-against-it stance towards anything in the movie solely because the Egon/Janine ship was shot down. I can understand being disappointed by that particular choice, but it's not fair to assume things we don't know out of bitterness.


I think you're making a fair point there, Jeff. I know I've been one of the one's bellyaching, but I think that's a fair point. (And I deeply appreciate you and Jeremy popping up again; I've missed you guys. The fact I recently went back and reread all of my Ghostbusters fan fics, including the GBWC stuff, didn't help that feeling lol)

nikki wrote:
As for the Egon and Janine stuff - I'm just confused more than anything. The second trailer made it seem like she was more involved with Egon, then Jason's Director's Commentary suggested that she looked after him in his old age and that there was a connection between them, and now there's a little glimpse of it in the most recent ad, which makes me think there might be some closure at least for those two, so I don't know. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I'm not gonna pitch a fit if they don't get together. Frankly, I'm so used to building my hopes up on that front and then it not happening that it's almost become routine.


Not a totally bad way of looking at it. So fine, this universe is a wash. There's plenty of others. Yeah, this is the "official" one now, but just like not everybody likes the "official" Star Wars universe where Luke, Han, and Leia are all enormous fuckups and the galaxy goes to shit again thirty years after Return of the Jedi you don't have to like GBA either.

ghostdiva wrote:
I really dont appreciate when people make me feel like I'm not entitled to my feelings or that my feelings are wrong just because they go against the general consensus. I'm not gonna kiss Hollywood's butt just because they made a movie. Everyone on other boards wants no negative feedback, makes you feel bad for questioning any of the plot. I'm not a sheep. I can voice my own opinions.


Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

That said, am I still looking forward to this movie? At the end of the day...I realize I am. I'm almost glad that some of these spoilers have "ruined" my hopes for how things might have gone...I'll spend less time grinding my teeth about those missed opportunities and it (apparently) being the one area of GB1 lore they're not (apparently) pandering to. Just like I had an inkling going into GB2 about certain Bad Things happening; going into it cold eighteen year old me probably would have shouted "This is worse bullshit than what they've been doing to her in the cartoon!!!" and left the theatre.

I want to like the new characters; the kids and Grooberson definitely look promising. I want the story to be a worthy capstone to the careers of the original Ghostbusters characters. I hope there's enough new ideas and twists injected into the story that, even though it involves a familiar villain, it won't feel like the same very lazy and derivative storytelling the aforementioned Star Wars sequels shoveled on us.

:?

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PostPosted: October 26th, 2021, 10:57 pm 
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Fritz wrote:
I think you're making a fair point there, Jeff. I know I've been one of the one's bellyaching, but I think that's a fair point. (And I deeply appreciate you and Jeremy popping up again; I've missed you guys. The fact I recently went back and reread all of my Ghostbusters fan fics, including the GBWC stuff, didn't help that feeling lol)

The first thought that went through my head when I wanted to know what the fandom was saying was "I wonder what the Ectozone has to say about this," because this board felt more like my GB home than anyplace else, and I have to admit I have missed talking to everybody here. Now if we could only get Jason on here more, we'd have a regular reunion on our hands. :lol:

And I also agree with Jeff, a lot of us are mad that they just didn't have E/J together till he died, but we're not getting that so, in my opinion, oh well, still gonna go see it as soon as it comes to my area. I loved the 2016 version, but this movie is, unfortunately, the true sequel to what started the franchise. And damnit, we've been made to wait more than an entire 18 months for it to come out. We're tired of waiting.

Fritz wrote:
I want to like the new characters; the kids and Grooberson definitely look promising. I want the story to be a worthy capstone to the careers of the original Ghostbusters characters. I hope there's enough new ideas and twists injected into the story that, even though it involves a familiar villain, it won't feel like the same very lazy and derivative storytelling the aforementioned Star Wars sequels shoveled on us.

:?

Couldn't agree more Fritz. I honestly hope we get an entire series of new GB movies with these characters. Not as often as we've been getting stuff from Marvel, but still more movies that hopefully don't rehash plot points that previous movies/games haven't done already. If they wanted to bring parts of Chronicles of Gozer to the screen, I wouldn't mind. :lol:

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PostPosted: October 27th, 2021, 4:18 am 
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egon901 wrote:
Now if we could only get Jason on here more, we'd have a regular reunion on our hands. :

Image


I am saddened by some of what is being said here. as I said before I don't like the idea of so many of our old heroes turning out to be bad fathers. seems to be a trend that is used in righting all to often now days.

buI am saddened by some of what is being said here. as I said before I don't like the idea of so many of our old heroes turning out to be bad fathers. seems to be a trend that is used all to often in righting ow days.

yet I also have mixed feeling on it. for the most part it looks like it might be a good film. you all know how i feel about staypuff. so I already fellin love with the baby staypuffs.

I'm also hoping that this film will do well and we get alot more from it. not just filmes and new cartoons and new games.
yes there is a chance we will be getting more content with the new characters rather then the old ones. ghostbusters is being introdused to a new jenorationand if the brand is going to suvives we sort of need that.


Fritz. I didnt think about it till you talked about star wars , I thoght " oh right gozer is coming back and they need to stop him. its just like how star kiler base is just the deths star all over again." I gues it disnt really faze me so much B/c how many times have they tried to bring gozer back in all the games and comics and what not . I meen its almost a joke in the fanficks we make.

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PostPosted: October 27th, 2021, 5:11 am 
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jason knetge wrote:
egon901 wrote:
Now if we could only get Jason on here more, we'd have a regular reunion on our hands. :

Image


I laughed out loud for a full minute when I saw that. Ellie also says hi to everybody. She's been pretty busy with her own stuff lately so hasn't had a chance to stop by.


jason knetge wrote:
I am saddened by some of what is being said here. as I said before I don't like the idea of so many of our old heroes turning out to be bad fathers. seems to be a trend that is used in righting all to often now days.


It's a sad time that every writer has to have a main character that has to have a neglectful parent for more of a punch to the gut for the audience. How hard can it be to have that parent move away because they wanted something else for their life but still keep in contact with their child? If I'm wrong about that, please tell me, I don't wanna be a jerk about things like this.

jason knetge wrote:
buI am saddened by some of what is being said here. as I said before I don't like the idea of so many of our old heroes turning out to be bad fathers. seems to be a trend that is used all to often in righting ow days.

yet I also have mixed feeling on it. for the most part it looks like it might be a good film. you all know how i feel about staypuff. so I already fellin love with the baby staypuffs.

I'm also hoping that this film will do well and we get alot more from it. not just filmes and new cartoons and new games.
yes there is a chance we will be getting more content with the new characters rather then the old ones. ghostbusters is being introdused to a new jenorationand if the brand is going to suvives we sort of need that.


This is my thoughts on this movie as well. I'm honestly hoping, as it already has, that it brings new stuff for us and the rest of the world to make people fall in love and look forward to all the new stuff this movie will bring. Heck, maybe they'll fight another big name supernatural baddie next time. A live-action Samhain would be awesome.


jason knetge wrote:
Fritz. I didnt think about it till you talked about star wars , I thoght " oh right gozer is coming back and they need to stop him. its just like how star kiler base is just the deths star all over again." I gues it disnt really faze me so much B/c how many times have they tried to bring gozer back in all the games and comics and what not . I meen its almost a joke in the fanficks we make.


Oh the jokes we could make from this.

"Hey, did you guys hear about Gozer getting beat, again, by a bunch of kids in the middle of nowhere?"

"Why was he called 'The destructor again? He's just getting to be a whipping boy now, and I honestly feel sorry about it."

"Yea, that was, what, fifth or sixth time he lost?"

You get the idea. The first time was awesome, the second time wasn't even Gozer exactly, it was Ivo Shandor wanting to become a god, and now this. We all know how it's gonna end for Gozer is all I'm saying.

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PostPosted: October 27th, 2021, 5:29 pm 
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jason knetge wrote:
Fritz. I didnt think about it till you talked about star wars , I thoght " oh right gozer is coming back and they need to stop him. its just like how star kiler base is just the deths star all over again." I gues it disnt really faze me so much B/c how many times have they tried to bring gozer back in all the games and comics and what not . I meen its almost a joke in the fanficks we make.


I think part of what irritates me personally about it is that for a long time, it just didn't happen. They had all of mythology to draw upon, and writers made up new stuff as well, instead of going to the same monsters again and again. As JMS put it in the RGB writer's bible:

JMS wrote:
As for GOZAR (sic) -- forget him. He's history. with such a wonderful wealth of possibilities, why monopolize the show with a running nasty?


And then starting really with IDW (though 88MPH was clearly planning to go that route) Gozer is constantly being referenced and called back to. We've met Gozer's Dad, and his half-siblings. Everything but a lumberjack cousin. Gozer itself got it's ass kicked in the Video Game and in IDW's comics. And now, depending on whether the video game will be canon to the OGB movies or not, in the GB1/2/A universe somewhere between 2/3 and ALL supernatural activity has to involve Gozer somehow.

Basically, the last dozen years or so have made me sick of Gozer.

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PostPosted: October 28th, 2021, 10:42 pm 
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at this point in about ten years or so, the biggest conflict will be Gozer coming to the monthly poker game.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2021, 6:42 am 
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egon901 wrote:
It's a sad time that every writer has to have a main character that has to have a neglectful parent for more of a punch to the gut for the audience. How hard can it be to have that parent move away because they wanted something else for their life but still keep in contact with their child? If I'm wrong about that, please tell me, I don't wanna be a jerk about things like this.

No, I agree with you.

There are many ways they could have done this that would still have allowed Callie, Trevor and Phoebe to 'discover' their father and grandfather without him abandoning them all. 

He could have just kept that part of his life a secret from them, only to be discovered when they inherit his farmhouse. Callie could have just naturally drifted away from her father without any animosity on either of their parts. Many families have relatives that don't keep in touch as much when they get older and have families of their own but were still there through their formative years and still very much loved. 

It just paints Egon in an unflattering light, in my opinion, which is a bit of a shame. 

Fritz wrote:
Basically, the last dozen years or so have made me sick of Gozer.

I completely agree with this, also.

It makes the Ghostbusters universe a lot smaller than it should be. Whatever can be said about GB2, at least it gave us a different antagonist. I do have some sympathy for Jason with this, though. It's not really his fault that the video game and comics kept going back to that lore to the point where we've seen every branch of Gozer's family tree. Personally, I've always thought Ivo Shandor was a more interesting adversary and his story hasn't really been touched on as much - I think 88mph Legion and IDW had him guest starring a couple of times, but the main focus has always been on Gozer, probably because gods and demi-gods seem to be more interesting villains than flawed humans.

On a more positive note, though, I really, really love the kids. I think Podcast is hilarious, and Phoebe's enthusiasm when she's trying to bust Muncher is great. It does seem to be a great movie, but I do have some reservations which hopefully will be dispelled when I finally get around to seeing the damned thing. :lol:

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2021, 7:33 am 
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On the subject of Gozer, I definitely agree that it's been used about two times too many...but as one of the writers on a story called "Chronicles of Gozer" in which the plot is "Vinz and Zuul find new hosts," I also feel a bit like a hypocrite saying so.

I understand why they felt the need to do it this time because if you're treating only the movies as canon then it's been 40 years and this is only the second time and it's an appropriate thematic bookend or origin-reprisal or whatever.

There's also a problem in Ghostbusters lore that's always bothered me and felt like a problem I don't know how to solve, and I would on occasion bring this up years and years ago back when we were still writing West Coast stories: If you take the live-action, non Real/Extreme lore as it is...the default state of the world is that it's to resemble the real world, ghosts *can't* manifest enough for people to prove they exist and for an extermination service to stay in business, unless something unnatural/manmade is upping the PKE in the world, and that something seems to explicitly have to be a growing rift between our world and Gozer's (which is to say - it needn't necessarily be the same god every time but The Goze definitely comes from THE spirit world, not A spirit world.)

I mean even Vigo, the video game basically noticed "Hey, in the movie he never actually takes credit for the river of slime existing, all he did was put his soul in a painting and wait for a prophesied time in which he'd SOMEHOW come back, the fact that that somehow is a buildup of mood slime under a city with exceptionally negative emotions seems to be a convenient coincidence" and decided to blame the production of the river on the Shandor cult too.

Suffice it to say, I'm interested to see whether or not this movie's ending even leaves logical room for sequels and thus fan fiction, RPG campaigns, fan films, etc. where GBI and franchises could exist in its version of the universe, or if the Ghostbusters are doomed to be an unsustainable business model because ghosts can only exist when there's an apocalypse coming.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2021, 3:59 pm 
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TheRazorsEdge wrote:
On the subject of Gozer, I definitely agree that it's been used about two times too many...but as one of the writers on a story called "Chronicles of Gozer" in which the plot is "Vinz and Zuul find new hosts," I also feel a bit like a hypocrite saying so.


:lol: I kept waiting for that to come up; I admit that's a good point too. The best defense on that one is: I've written or co-written, to date, over 150 stories, with a few dozen more by other people, including you of course. Let's say a total of around 200 Timeline 8932 stories (with Rosey's output back in the day I may be lowballing it). CoG was six of them--about three percent versus 67 or 75 percent.

And I made sure to expressly say Gozer got blown up so hard it ain't coming back for millions of years.

Quote:
I understand why they felt the need to do it this time because if you're treating only the movies as canon then it's been 40 years and this is only the second time and it's an appropriate thematic bookend or origin-reprisal or whatever.


Yeah, I can see that. It's certainly an issue of "That's not the way I would have done it" I guess. The worst I did in my own origin of some Spenglers taking up Ghostbusting is set part of it in the Sedgewick Hotel and recycle a few lines.

Quote:
There's also a problem in Ghostbusters lore that's always bothered me and felt like a problem I don't know how to solve, and I would on occasion bring this up years and years ago back when we were still writing West Coast stories: If you take the live-action, non Real/Extreme lore as it is...the default state of the world is that it's to resemble the real world, ghosts *can't* manifest enough for people to prove they exist and for an extermination service to stay in business, unless something unnatural/manmade is upping the PKE in the world, and that something seems to explicitly have to be a growing rift between our world and Gozer's (which is to say - it needn't necessarily be the same god every time but The Goze definitely comes from THE spirit world, not A spirit world.)

I mean even Vigo, the video game basically noticed "Hey, in the movie he never actually takes credit for the river of slime existing, all he did was put his soul in a painting and wait for a prophesied time in which he'd SOMEHOW come back, the fact that that somehow is a buildup of mood slime under a city with exceptionally negative emotions seems to be a convenient coincidence" and decided to blame the production of the river on the Shandor cult too.

Suffice it to say, I'm interested to see whether or not this movie's ending even leaves logical room for sequels and thus fan fiction, RPG campaigns, fan films, etc. where GBI and franchises could exist in its version of the universe, or if the Ghostbusters are doomed to be an unsustainable business model because ghosts can only exist when there's an apocalypse coming.


Which is exactly why I groaned at the "Noone's seen a ghost in thirty years" line in one of the teasers. I laughed bitterly at all the people on GBFans who reacted to that line with "But what about the Video Game and the IDW stuff?" and so wanted to go "This surprises you? Welcome to my world you sweet summer children."

The first movie was a good starting point. Some brilliant science fiction and animation and RPG writers ran with it...then got roundly ignored by "Five Years Later"

The second movie also made a good starting point. Some of those same writers and many more ran with it for almost three decades...then got stamped "No one's seen a ghost in thirty years"

So yeah, GBA will undoubtedly be a good starting point...if it's successful, it could lead to television, animation, other licensed product. But anybody who doesn't think in the future Sony can't go "Well, none of that counts and we're starting the next movie with everyone thinking yet again that the Ghostbusters were frauds and losers" is deluding themselves.

As I write this, the irony occurs to me of people accusing RGB of being too "superheroic"...when they're the ones living in a world with enough supernatural activity that "I hunt ghosts the way exterminators hunt termites" is a valid business model, while the movie-only universe so far is not. Unless Gozer is coming or someone is piggybacking on it, you only need a few Big Damn Heroes an average of once every decade or so.

So yeah, I'd say it is looking, so far, like the movie-only world is certainly safer than many of the licensee and fan worlds. But it doesn't leave much room for anyone else.

As for "our" universe...well, I've tried to say that clearly there have been ebbs and flows of paranormal energy throughout history. There have been those who've used and abused it. And the main reason so many still disbelieve is some of the same powers that have stopped previous crises have actively covered up and obfuscated the existence of the supernatural; kind of like "the Veil" and "The Masquerade" ideas in White Wolf. It's certainly not a perfect answer, but it's all we've got until someone comes up with a better one.

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