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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 26th, 2012, 11:30 pm 
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you mean I say it befor you did ?

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 28th, 2012, 9:58 pm 
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Fritz Babbles About Ghostbusters #8:

Extensive Spoilers. Here we go:

Well, okay. I guess I better get to this first or all of my "fans" will wonder what's wrong with me:

Way back in #1, we found out Janine was dating some guy named "Roger" off-camera. A few odd theories went around--a popular one was that "Roger" was just Egon using an assumed name to keep what they were doing secret from Venkman and the others because Venkman would tease them--but this issue we finally meet the guy.

I really hate to sound like I'm gloating, but Ghostdiva and I almost called it:

viewtopic.php?p=4199#p4199

Fritz wrote:
ghostdiva wrote:
(I even thought they might make him look more like RGB Egon for kicks.)


Since you said it, yeah, that's the theory I had that's still seems possible. Consider:

Dan Schoening is an obvious fan of the cartoon, and massively enjoys putting in call-backs to it. Janine dating a guy who looks like RGB Egon would be a huge one.

The latest Janine is a meld of GB1 Janine and RGB Season 1 Janine visually (and who can blame them? Those are the best versions of the character). It would make a weird kind of sense to have her torn between the two matching versions of Egon.

Erik Burhham wrote:
I expect a piece of the internet to break off when he shows up.


I seem to recall him or Dan saying something similar about #5, which ended up featuring the IDW premiere of Kylie Griffin

Quote:
I think Roger's appearance will shake up the J+E fans.


There are more than one way to parse the word "appearance" you know...

Quote:
Egon and Roger could be the Betty & Veronica to Janine's Archie!


A redhead as hypotenuse in a triangle between a brunette and a blond? That would fit.


Well, okay, it was EGB Egon instead or RGB Egon, which does sort of match the assumed time frame (sometime post-1992 to as late as ~1994/1995; he even wears a "New York University" sweater, which is one of the names given to the place Egon worked between RGB and EGB), but I still did a little fist pump. Roger's automatically far more Janine's type than Louis Tully ever was. What's up with his name, though? Why did Erik Burnham name him after former Washington Redskins quarterback Sammy Baugh? Is he an athlete or something?*

Er...anyway...

We start off with what seems like a routine bust at a nursing home. It's the kind of case that ABC wouldn't let the Ghostbusters take--they shied away from any mention of ghosts that were dead people, and with an exception or two (ie Al Capone in "Partners In Slime") they were all monstrous and extradimensional. Class 5 and 7 entities, if you will.

Well, not this time--it's actually a somewhat sympathetic old lady who goes off the deep end when Egon and Winston say they're not her son--she's not on the Other Side because he never came to visit her. Then things get a bit scary--remember how Slimer was hard to catch way back in #1-2? Yeah. It happens again with the old lady. Egon can't take his hands off the thrower to set the trap--fortunately, Ray and Venkman show up just in time for Ray to finish the job.

Winston is a little sad ("If her son had shown up, she'd a been at peace."), Venkman continues criticizing the decor, and Egon is brooding: with Idulnas gone, this PKE surge shouldn't be happening.

But it is. Ray asks why. And then Egon Spengler says the one thing you don't want Egon Spengler saying: "I don't know"

Intent on finding out, Egon works himself raw with little sleep over the next three days (fortunately, his "polyphasic schedule" is helping). Finally admitting he's at a dead end, he goes to the gym at Delgado's Gym (You'll recall it's next to the Casey J's, who's bouncer you really really don't want to mess with), and he steps out just in time for most of the entire Melnitz family to come strolling by. Mom, Dad, sister Doris, Brother (in law?), Grandma, and Janine herself, of course. Everybody but her nephew Victor, it looks like.

Oh, yeah. And Roger.

Egon's so stressed and raw from the whole paranormal situation I like to think him blurting out "I don't have time for this" has multiple meanings. After he's been "snippy" and written a book that seems to have made Janine "aggressive" he ducks out of the potential conflict--I just hear LaMarche saying that "I don't have time for this" line in the same tone of voice he used to say "And what's that? Your jalopy?" in "Robo Buster". (Actually, Maurice LaMarche, in my head, voices two of the three characters in that scene) Janine's basically dating his fetch. I mean, that's gotta creep him out.

And then it hits him: it was at this corner he saw that mysterious somebody three issues ago. It was a friend of his named Eugene Visitor, who died when he was hit by a car nearly twenty years ago--then literally vanished. Egon muses that it was one of the incidents that awakened his interest in the paranormal (I still like to think one of the "several incidents" he alludes to was a giant headed corporeal Class 7 living in his closet and scaring the crap out of him when he was a kid.)

Egon scans again. He seems to find something, and I doubt it has anything to do with Ray Cougar (who's standing at the crosswalk with a few other in-jokes Mrmichealt will point out on GBFans) and goes back to GBCentral, declaring "I need to get to New Jersey!" Venkman continues a long tradition in the cartoon of not missing the opportunity to make fun of the Garden State ("I don't think anyone really needs to get to Jersey") Before explaining any further, Egon hops in the ECTO-1 and drives to Belleville, New Jersey. Alone.

Egon finds Eugene's father there, and sure enough, there's Eugene. This is our month for cutesy nicknames, isn't it? Rager calls Janine "Twinkle" while Eugene calls Egon "Eeg". Which has got to be less demeaning than "Baby Spookums", but Eugene isn't Egon's mother, either.

Eugene is not a lot like Egon--he looks more like a football player than a guy who hanged around with a physics prodigy, but then again, the cartoon at least suggested Venkman was also a football player in his college days. Eugene explains what happened: when he got hit by the car, he saw a vision of Death itself. Remembering an old Russian folk tale, he orders the spirit of Death to get into his bag; he's had Death in his bag every since, but it's disjointed him in time.

Egon's horrified by the implications of this. While it hasn't stopped people from dying (if nobody died anywhere between c-1973-1992, I think we'd notice) Egon realizes it's probably a spirit that syphons abnormal levels of PKE from the Earth plane's ectosphere. Without that syphoning, PKE builds up. Which is bad.

Egon tries to grab the sack and open it, but it doesn't work--Eugene is the only one can open it. Eugene doesn't care what Egon thinks--because if he lets "Death" out he's, well, dead; besides, he thinks Egon aught to thank him because it has to be good for the Ghostbusting business, right?

Having had a long day, Egon slinks off in defeat. It's a problem he can't solve. Yet.

Tristan Jones expands on the legend Eugene mentions in his backup story, which also features the first in-story appearance of John Horace Tobin. Other than the somewhat gratuitous Vigo name drop, it's a fascinating tale. It's not a complete swipe of the Tobin created by the GBI Tobin's Spirit Guide module (JH looks a little skinnier and hardier than in the GBI artwork, and there's no mention of Tobin's longtime partner Shrewsbury Smith) but it's still neat to see JH make it into a story at last, and t-rex's moody artwork complements the story perfectly.

*--Well, duh, of course I know where he really got that name. I soak in the attention, and get a huge kick out of the vast irony of it: name Egon's new rival after one of Egon's biggest fans. :D I eagerly await Venkman getting a postcard from Dana saying she's dating a man named Steve Collins, or Ray hearing Elaine Fuhrman has married Jack Nielson, or Tiyah Clark dumping Winston for Larry Reilly. Maybe the new "Ghost Busters' team that Ron "Jake Kong" Alexander is former will be similarly named after Ghosthead site owners. Let's go Ghost Busters! Larry Benjamin!!! Curly Quick!!! Shemp Stewart!!! Moe Holbrook!!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 29th, 2012, 12:31 am 
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The issue just amused the crap out of me in general. 'Twinkle' was a little annoying, but I aaaalmost imagine that Roger is just a college buddy of Janine's who is in on a plot to make Egon jealous. Or he's just a really nice guy.

On the list of amusing things, in no particular order...

I think this is the only time Egon's actually smiled in the series, am I right?

"Wait, my college buddy who has been dead all these years was on that crosswalk and it took me this long to realize it..." This is what sleep deprivation can do to a person~ Or somewhat poor facial recognition.

Also, that 70's haircut! Rocking the pompadour there.

Did anyone else catch the shifty eyed nervous trench coat guy? I suspect that's our blueprint thief unless I am mistaken and that's the Ray Cougar you mentioned.

And don't forget Curly Joe!

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 29th, 2012, 11:44 am 
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Fritz wrote:
Janine's basically dating his fetch. I mean, that's gotta creep him out.

We know they are basically the same person, but I don't know if Comic Egon would be aware of it. Roger doesn't seem very Egon-like in giving Janine a cutesy nickname (how I hate the GB fanfics where Egon gives someone a cutesy nickname - it happens mainly in Mary Sue fics), and on the IDW boards someone not as familiar with EGB thought he looked more like Ray. It makes me wonder whether we are giving more importance to Roger's appearance than we should be.

I like to interpret the 'I don't have time for this' line as purely a jealous reaction. He really doesn't want to know what makes Janine's eyes twinkle, and after not having much sleep he's probably not in the best of moods to be polite.

I'm more interested in Janine's reaction to his leaving. I think you can tell that she's upset - maybe it wasn't the reaction she was hoping for? Maybe it's the first sign that she's unsure about this new relationship? A little bit of regret? Or maybe she feels that Egon's response just proved to her beyond any doubt that he's not interested. I also found it interesting that she didn't introduce Roger until he prompted her to, so maybe Roger really isn't that important to her, after all.

APaleHorse wrote:
"Wait, my college buddy who has been dead all these years was on that crosswalk and it took me this long to realize it..." This is what sleep deprivation can do to a person~ Or somewhat poor facial recognition.

Lol. I picked up on that, too. Maybe he's just too used to seeing ghosts for it to register! :lol: :D

On another note, I love how they are writing Winston in these comics. He's not centre-focus (although I think his time is coming soon), but he really does add that little bit of humanity in amongst the frantic jobs. His concern about Egon's health was just adorable.

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 29th, 2012, 4:48 pm 
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APaleHorse wrote:
I aaaalmost imagine that Roger is just a college buddy of Janine's who is in on a plot to make Egon jealous.


It would be a kicker, wouldn't it? I'd say nothing her necessarily completely rules it out, though I still think it's unlikely.

nikki wrote:
Fritz wrote:
Janine's basically dating his fetch. I mean, that's gotta creep him out.

We know they are basically the same person, but I don't know if Comic Egon would be aware of it. Roger doesn't seem very Egon-like in giving Janine a cutesy nickname (how I hate the GB fanfics where Egon gives someone a cutesy nickname - it happens mainly in Mary Sue fics), and on the IDW boards someone not as familiar with EGB thought he looked more like Ray. It makes me wonder whether we are giving more importance to Roger's appearance than we should be.


It's one thing to not be aware of EGB. But nobody could credibly say Schoening and Burnham aren't, and I have to assume they know exactly what they're doing--they're at the very least screwing with the audience (pardon the phrase). Roger's still a blank slate character-wise, of course--he may look like Egon, but for all we know he's very different in other ways. But again, I think that making Roger a blatant clone of one of Egon's incarnations suggests some more parallels might be forthcoming. Does he just happen to be a science teacher at NYCCC, for example? Really drive it home who Janine really wants, but is "settling" with a lesser copy (though certainly a quantum improvement over that last loser :hurl: ).

Quote:
I'm more interested in Janine's reaction to his leaving. I think you can tell that she's upset - maybe it wasn't the reaction she was hoping for? Maybe it's the first sign that she's unsure about this new relationship? A little bit of regret? Or maybe she feels that Egon's response just proved to her beyond any doubt that he's not interested. I also found it interesting that she didn't introduce Roger until he prompted her to, so maybe Roger really isn't that important to her, after all.


Or did she get upset because she just wasn't sure what Egon would do? Is she a bit disturbed by the idea he made an uncharacteristically snippy response and is dueling with conflicting interpretations as to why he's acting this way? Or that Egon was obviously affected, but didn't make a big scene? Was she secretly upset he didn't explode further and deck Roger right in the face?

Or was she upset because she realized exactly what you suggest: Egon shows up and she momentarily seems to forget Roger is even there. "Dammit, Why can't I just get over that guy and move on?"

It's almost textbook from the way this has happened "before" in "Robo Buster" and RGB#16. Like I sum it up in "Dreams Reborn"

Quote:
He stiffened. "Janine...don't you understand? It was all part of the same pattern. The way we kept torturing ourselves and each other over the years. You'd pour your heart into trying to get me to open up to you. I'd sit there like a piece of ice pretending I didn't notice. Then you'd do something rash, to either get at me or in a well-meaning attempt to get on with your life. I'd seethe and explode jealously, but you couldn't understand why. You'd have second thoughts and undo your rash effort. And I'd retreat back into logic. And the cycle repeated itself..."


It's a damn vicious cycle, and it seems to require one or the other breaking it. Egon doesn't because he's scared of his feelings. She doesn't do it because deep down she's afraid of driving him away for good. She's wavering perhaps a little bit this time, because it's already been so many years, there's still the wreckage of the Louis Tully situation lurking in her mind, and Roger doesn't seem like a bad guy.

Quote:
On another note, I love how they are writing Winston in these comics. He's not centre-focus (although I think his time is coming soon), but he really does add that little bit of humanity in amongst the frantic jobs. His concern about Egon's health was just adorable.


Indeed. This has been one of the most consistently excellent aspects of the series.

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 30th, 2012, 12:08 am 
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APaleHorse wrote:
The issue just amused the crap out of me in general. 'Twinkle' was a little annoying, but I aaaalmost imagine that Roger is just a college buddy of Janine's who is in on a plot to make Egon jealous. Or he's just a really nice guy.[/size]

I'm holding out he's Egon from another reality.

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 30th, 2012, 9:25 am 
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Roger, upon meeting Kylie for the first time: "You!"
Kylie: "You!"

And then epic Samurai sword fight.

Or you know, maybe he IS a fetch. Oh that would crack me up. Do you have a soul Roger? Are you a log? You're a log aren't you, the way you just...sit there...sometimes. And don't get me started on the way you sleep, you could compete with sawmills all over the continental US.

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 30th, 2012, 4:45 pm 
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Fritz wrote:
It's one thing to not be aware of EGB. But nobody could credibly say Schoening and Burnham aren't, and I have to assume they know exactly what they're doing--they're at the very least screwing with the audience (pardon the phrase).

Of course, but I think maybe that's all it is - a knowing nod like the other cartoon references scattered in the comics. I just wonder if people are reading too much into it - speculating that it might be Egon from the future or another dimension, for instance. I know Kylie is already featured in the comics, so obviously they are bringing in certain elements of EGB into them, but if it IS Egon, then why would he be calling himself Roger and acting like a smug jerk? I just don't think it's likely that an Egon from the future would change his name and mannerisms specifically to make his past/other dimensional self jealous (although that's certainly a fanfic I'd like to read!) And if it IS Egon from an EGB future, then I wonder why he's being such an ass by dating Janine and being all smug about it when really he should be taking Egon aside and giving him real advice about what to do. Unless it's Evil!Egon out to get Egon's girl. :D :lol:

I dunno, I'm just a bit wary of putting too much emphasis on what he looks like after seeing all the other cartoon stuff dotted about in the comics that are not part of any story. I think Burnham himself mentioned that Roger's introduction won't reveal anything much about him, and I'd have thought if his appearance was significant to the story then his introduction alone would have been a major reveal. I just think that maybe we should take Roger's appearance as it is - a bit of teasing for E/J shippers. Though he is definitely an improvement over Louis.  :mrgreen:

Fritz wrote:
Roger's still a blank slate character-wise, of course--he may look like Egon, but for all we know he's very different in other ways. But again, I think that making Roger a blatant clone of one of Egon's incarnations suggests some more parallels might be forthcoming. Does he just happen to be a science teacher at NYCCC, for example? Really drive it home who Janine really wants, but is "settling" with a lesser copy (though certainly a quantum improvement over that last loser :hurl: ).

He certainly acts a bit smug, just in the two seconds of meeting him (and apparently deliberately so).

To be honest, I don't really care that Roger looks like Egon. He's not. And I think that's ultimately the point. Whoever she's dating, she's settling with second best, whether it be Louis, Paul Smart or Egon-clone. Though I still think that Burnham and Schoening would have to be careful about people like the guy on the IDW boards, who haven't seen EGB and are reading the comics and wouldn't be picking up on any of these comparisons at all.

Fritz wrote:
It's almost textbook from the way this has happened "before" in "Robo Buster" and RGB#16.

Yeah, a scenario well played out. The tried and tested methods of pissing off E/J shippers. :roll: :D Should be a trademark there somewhere, it's been used so often!

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 30th, 2012, 5:34 pm 
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I think you're right about one thing: I really doubt that Roger is supposed to be Egon from an alternate dimension or anything like that. Maybe some of you have taken my description of him as "Egon's fetch" a little too literally. There's absolutely nothing yet in-story to indicate he's anything other than a normal human being (and while this is a franchise where that isn't a given, I'll still judge him innocent until proven to be a shapeshifting slime beast or something)

He's more of a metaphorical reflection. Roger looks like EGB Egon because of their penchant for in-jokes, and because he reflects a place that other version of Egon struggled but basically accomplished getting to: admitting he was in love with Janine (more than once as per "Janine You've Changed" and "The Crawler") and letting their relationship at least start to blossom (before the ax fell on both shows)

Am I going to join Team Roger anytime soon, no matter who he looks like or is named after? Hell no. Roger may look more like "my" Egon but he's still not Egon. I'm on Team Egon all the way.







Oh dear grife I'm invoking Twilight fandom-esque slang.

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 30th, 2012, 5:43 pm 
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It's okay, Fritz. We all invoke it sometime or another.

Though maybe we can pretend it's more like chess teams. Chess teams > Twilight.

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: April 30th, 2012, 7:13 pm 
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:lol: It's when you start wearing Team Egon t-shirts that you should really be worried. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: May 1st, 2012, 12:33 am 
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nikki wrote:
:lol: It's when you start wearing Team Egon t-shirts that you should really be worried. :mrgreen:



It is? Ummm... *zipsuphoodie*



Ahem. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: May 1st, 2012, 11:09 pm 
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just so long as he dos not sparkle. I think you will be ok.

a so for the Egon from another reality. i was partly joking. Me I think it would be funny is IDW Janine is dating EGB Egon, And IDW Egon start to try and date EGB Janine. then after a bit the 2 EGB see one another and brake up with their IDW partners and go on there way.

Part of me dos not like Roger looking egon. In my mined i also know that is Egon witch mean in the end you know one egon is going to loos.

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: May 1st, 2012, 11:43 pm 
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I'm sorry, but you spoke it thusly upon the internet and condemned it to existance.

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I'm so very sorry. Also it's in convenient icon size for when you want to torture someone.

(or if you prefer non-sparkly try here)

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 Post subject: Re: IDW Ghostbusters #8
PostPosted: May 2nd, 2012, 9:46 am 
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Oh sweet merciful crap...No. Oh we're going to have some WORDS Lady... :twisted:

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